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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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All of the above!

There's not one determining factor it's normally a mixture based on specific needs of the user at that time. In this instance it's the job module and the functionality it currently offers with the possible promise of future functionality.

Migration is only important to those wanting to transfer from another system, personally I think it's important to offer so that people have a choice.

Building on that list I think we have to delve into each of those and potentially others and ask first whats commonly required for example, types of modules would be some kind of articles module, some kind of forums although not always required they are fairly common. After those bases are covered I think specifics need to be looked at more closely.

To find real answers I think we'd need to have some insight in what people require but the problem with a bb debate is that things can often sway off topic and no real answers found. A survey of sorts could do the job this way you get answers to specific questions without constant debate, debate could still occur separately though.

Posted on: 2008/8/23 3:15
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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I think we can also go outside ourselves to find the answers to this - opensourcecms, cmsmatrix, and other sites can be great sources of information of what people really need.

Posted on: 2008/8/23 3:26
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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Quote:

Tom wrote:
I like JLM modules but it's his choice not to offer support. We all knew that eventually we'd reach this point where some wouldn't want to support both systems. Another developer not supporting ImpressCMS is Zoullou.

Another great loss of talent but I'm really not worried. The way I see it is this is open source and ongoing support will still happen here as and when required. I'd like to see something like GForge installed and then allowing developers to openly apply for developer access to a module, I suppose like an adoption program perhaps even include a sponsorship program for new features.


True enough, but I don't think we should write these guys off--or anyone else for that matter. Maybe they just haven't seen enough of a reason to jump on the wagon, and maybe that's because they don't know enough about Impress.

Xoops 2.2 is still the best Xoops version. Mith was a forward looking person, gave us a nice product, and got ridden out of town on a rail for his trouble. Xoops still hasn't made it back to the functionality of 2.2, and I doubt they ever will. Still no block cloning, and they don't seem to understand why it's important. Impress had it from the get-go. Advanced profiles management? I'll bet that Impress will be there first. OpenID? Impress will get there first. Same with a whole bunch of other things. I'm wondering if these guys know all of this? Knowing what I do, I can't understand why they all wouldn't want to support Impress. Anybody spoken with them dev to dev?

By the way, where is Mith? Seems like he should be with Impress.

Jere

Posted on: 2008/8/23 3:33
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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Lets just focus on ICMS - as ICMS is the future of XOOPS.

If those module devs want to go x only - let them.

TBH - I would much rather see a single (but highly customizabl) gallery module anyway - rather than having 6 different version of a a place to store pics. ya know.

Very soon - our core is going to be feature rich - and the abilities that 1.1 already has are going to really appeal to devs.

I think it just boils down to a really well written pr - explaining what this system can do. As it appears that some module devs think that the only difference in x2 and icms is salt.

Which is frankly an uneducated statement. Though - it wouldn't be their fault, because if they dont know what 1.1 can do it is our fault for not showing them.

Still pretty pissed about it though

Posted on: 2008/8/23 3:54
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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Quote:
I think we can also go outside ourselves to find the answers to this - opensourcecms, cmsmatrix, and other sites can be great sources of information of what people really need.


Of course, this would certainly give a wider view point from people using various projects.

Quote:
True enough, but I don't think we should write these guys off--or anyone else for that matter. Maybe they just haven't seen enough of a reason to jump on the wagon, and maybe that's because they don't know enough about Impress.


I wasn't talking about writing anyone off, but we have to consider long term plans for modules which may not be supported by it's main developers especially when they state they won't support ImpressCMS.

Using the term Open Source, our door will always be Open for them now and in the future.

Quote:
By the way, where is Mith? Seems like he should be with Impress.


I believe he's currently occupied at the moment.

I'm sure developers have at least looked at ImpressCMS especially from a business angle because supporting two bases improves their modules usage and possible commercial gain as a result. This would be senseless to me in my opinion, that would be like Open Office only working on one operating system or any other software free or commercial, why limit your market?

Posted on: 2008/8/23 5:28
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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I've got some ideas I've been speaking about with devs for compatibility improvements - I hope it's something we can look at.

But emulation, as a company I used to work for would tell you, is a two edged sword.....

When you emulate code - you often have to limit new features, to keep compatibility with old.

Look at how many issues skalpa had with 2.0.14 and 2.0.15 because of improving one file... and the faults where not because of bugs - but apparently (according to him) because he fixed some old bugs - which some modules counted on!

There are ways to accommodate "heritage" modules - without sacrificing our own development.. module developers who are weary about commiting can be supported.

Posted on: 2008/8/23 8:31
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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I think thats what it really boils down to David - the devs dont want to do the work to change their modules. Whereas xoops is not really changing until 3.0 (assumed, idk... who knows - 3.0 could be a box with holes in it and a picture of a caterpillar inside... no one knows. Though I think whatever it is, all the xUsers will be paying to use it.)

Posted on: 2008/8/23 15:43
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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Quote:

MrTheme wrote:
I think thats what it really boils down to David - the devs dont want to do the work to change their modules.


They have to see a good reason to add to their workload.

Quote:

Whereas xoops is not really changing until 3.0 (assumed, idk... who knows - 3.0 could be a box with holes in it and a picture of a caterpillar inside... no one knows. Though I think whatever it is, all the xUsers will be paying to use it.)


Naw -- they'll just move to Impress!

Jere

Posted on: 2008/8/23 15:57
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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+ the fact that a lot of module devs don't really know the real and trutheful reasons why we left xoops, that and mambas liableous defamatory propoganda campaigns in misleading people.. lol yeah i know and everyone knows that xoops devs are privately messaging people and giving them untruths and liableous comments in order to try and stop them using icms.

who cares, 1 way or the other, people will decide for themselves. we are fully open here in both development and in discussions relating to core development. hell even our realtime chat room developer meetings are all available for everyone to see, blimey even the mailing list was archived and would be made available without some unscrupulouis individuals hacking & passing on those mailing list emails to xoops. jeez people only need to ask where they were and we would have told em where they could see the full transcripts, or at least we would make them available.

you can't say that for xoops. it's not debatable, it's a 1 man show.. well 2 man, dj dictates the development, and mamba dictates the laws and rules and propoganda. but they are good at hiding the real facts.. where is xoops3 code being developed? where can anyone view the xoops3 development, and where can people view the private discussions of xoops devs? oh sorry i mentioned private discussions, yeah we were accused of hiding behind private discussions.. lol but they don't mention the fact that they do that all the time.. hypocrisy is the new name for XOOPS. and i'd certainly bet that icms is more secure than xoops, and i'd bet that icms will continue to be more secure than xoops.

why? that answer is simple. we collaborate, we communicate, and we get things done, because we are a team and a good team at that. xoops is not a team, it's a 1 man delegation, what dj says goes, if he doesn't agree, then it's dismissed. hell he can't even answer questions put to him, he evades them and changes the context to seem like something spectacular.

eventually people will figure it out for themselves.. but either way, we don't need smear campaigns & propoganda to propel us into the future.

a few years ago, i knew nothing about php, then i found xoops. and that took my interest :). but it wasn't xoops that taught me what i know now, and it wasn't current xoops devs that taught me either, they didn't help me out with coding, and tell me where i was going wrong, and what i did wrong or why it was not the best way to do things, and basicly mentored me. The people that gave me the boost and confidence and kicked me up the ass when i did things wrong are all here at icms, marcan especially I have learnt a lot from, Jan (mithrandir) too, I wouldn't be where I am today if nopt for those 2 people, of course there's others too.. Jon (bd_csmc) was the 1st person to give me insight and help me along, I miss his encouragement and work that he did with xoops, and i can honestly say, if it wasn't for Jon bd_csmc I would not have delved into xoops code as much as i have done, in fact if it wasn't for Jon, i'd still probably be a user not a developer. it's that encouragement and helpfulness that drives a person to want to do more & better things.

sure it's easy for people to tell you that you've done something wrong, or that they can do it better.. but the real help comes when people actually explain to you where you're wrong and why it's better to do it this way or that way, you know? actually explain why, instead of just "that's crap, you should do it this way". that's where i gained a lot of respect for Marcan & Jan, because they did explain things, and Marcan still does take the time to explain things, only the other day i queried Marcan about something in the core, because i thought it seemed wrong, but he explained it to me in a way that made sense, and as soon as he explained it, it did make sense and i saw the logic differently.

but taking myself as an example.. yeah don't laugh. but you don't need to be an expert in programming to be able to program, as long as you understand the logic of what you want to achive, or you understand what's & hows.

I understand now how XSS & SQLinjections take place and how they are exploited etc, and that's only through reading and experimentation. and the 1 thing people need to realise is, you don't need to be able to write code to make a good system. if you can explain your ideas well enough, then someone who can write code, can turn your ideas into reality.

xoops, nuke, drupal, joomla icms or whatever all began as somebodies idea, and that idea turned into reality.

Posted on: 2008/8/23 23:49
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Re: It's decision time for me - again
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ps. and yeah, i'm rather intoxicated at moment.. lol so excuse my long ranting.. lol

Posted on: 2008/8/23 23:58
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