| Poster |
Thread |
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/6 2:22 Updated: 2009/9/6 2:22 |
Home away from home   Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
 Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Test as much as you can guys, the faster we get all of the bigs worked out - the faster we can go RC, and then Final!
Congrats to everyone who played a part in getting this out - a hell of an accomplishment!
|
|
|
| thomas |
Posted: 2009/9/6 9:37 Updated: 2009/9/6 9:37 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2008/1/2 From: Posts: 1239 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Nice... Install screen shots on the way...
|
|
|
| bleekk |
Posted: 2009/9/6 9:42 Updated: 2009/9/6 9:42 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2008/3/19 From: Posts: 232 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! gratulation too all and thank you very much for this version! have installed it now and it is amazing  |
|
|
| web-M |
Posted: 2009/9/6 20:20 Updated: 2009/9/6 20:20 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Netherlands Posts: 175 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Great work guys! You all did lots of good work! Can't wait to get it Final (translation is in progress  ) Thank you all of you  |
|
|
| cpascal |
Posted: 2009/9/7 6:21 Updated: 2009/9/7 6:21 |
Quite a regular  Joined: 2008/5/24 From: Posts: 60 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Hello to all
I just know if ImpressCMS is still compatible with modules xoops 2.33 and the future xoops 3.
or ImpressCMS will depart completely xoops code in this case will there be a complete documentation detailing is to adapt the modules xoops 2.33 and the forthcoming version 3 xoops
for information: The update files of French language and courses.
if bravo and thank you for your work
|
|
|
| fiammybe |
Posted: 2009/9/7 8:27 Updated: 2009/9/7 8:27 |
Home away from home Joined: 2009/3/3 From: Belgium Posts: 389 |
 Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! The development roadmap of ImpressCMS does not include keeping up with changes from Xoops. The 2.3 release of Xoops introduced many new classes which are similar to what ImpressCMs 1.2 will offer, but keeping compatibility isn't one of the goals.
Documentation that details how to convert from Xoops to ImpressCMS might come along, but I think you'll agree with me that good, up-to-date tutorials and docs of how to do it with ImpressCMS will have precedence.
At the moment, most efforts are geared towards getting ImpressCMS 1.2 towards a release. If you need help in converting however, just post here and I'm sure someone will do their best to help you out.
|
|
|
| trabis |
Posted: 2009/9/7 20:35 Updated: 2009/9/7 20:35 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Portugal Posts: 358 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! My review:
-This icms 1.2 reminds me ALOT php nuke. Install and admin pages are ugly.
- iTheme is very slow to load. impresstheme is much faster.
- Making tips for fields descriptions is bad idea. You are making people click in every field to get simple information. Maybe the wiki pages could go on such popus.
- There are to many options in admin side. I'm used to oops and I lost myself very easily in icms. It is just to much.
I think icms has very good features and it is impressive on particular features but no in overall.
Extensibility and performance seem not to be on the roadmap.
|
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/7 21:23 Updated: 2009/9/7 21:23 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Thanks for the feedback Trabis. I especially appreciate the feedback focusing on my work, which was pretty much everything you listed. lol. Based on your feedback though, I am not sure you ever used phpnuke. Quote: Extensibility and performance seem not to be on the roadmap. I am sure you are aware how long it is going to take to clean out all the crap we inherited, and I am sure there is plenty within the core that you aren't giving justice to - I am sure some of which will inevitably end up in "oops". As always we are open to hearing feedback - even from the "competition" :) - as lame as coining it that is. |
|
|
| trabis |
Posted: 2009/9/7 23:06 Updated: 2009/9/7 23:06 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Portugal Posts: 358 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! No competition please. I never used phpnuke, but the installation process was not a good experience, it has an old look, a bad choice of colors, an overuse of javascript(stylechanger, go down button).
The "inherited crap" was something you did not have to inherit. That was a fundamental mistake IMO and a little out of the scope here.
The performance issues are related with this obsession of adding feature over feature not regarding if needed for every site installation. I'm sorry to see that you are insisting in bringing all to core. There is a lot of module developers that could extend core and even do a better job then the core devs. If modules can do it, it means that you have provided extensibility and that is what it is all about. Look at Yogurt module and you will understand what I mean.
There are very impressive works done in this 1.2 series, but I did like more the alpha release and I think this beta(comparing to the alpha) is a step backwards.
|
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/7 23:44 Updated: 2009/9/7 23:45 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Quote: No competition please. I never used phpnuke, but the installation process was not a good experience, it has an old look, a bad choice of colors, an overuse of javascript(stylechanger, go down button). I am not sure how it has an old look, but thanks for the comment - it will definitely be taken into consideration before we go final. The stylechanger is there to illustrate the two versions - we had discussed removing it for final after a consensus was reached by the community on which style they preferred. Quote: install several modules at once and tell me you don't like that "go down" button - I would love to have it only display on that page - but couldn't figure out how to accomplish that before closing bell. Perhaps it will make it for final. If I may extend the same courtesy, the xoops installer makes me want to vomit. Quote: The performance issues are related with this obsession of adding feature over feature not regarding if needed for every site installation Actually we have begun modularizing some of our larger core features (see content/profile). Most of our issue right now is legacy code for X1, and formatting. As we adapt to Zend this will be optimized. Even more so when we begin our 2.0 series. Granted you are dead on about how bloated our core is atm, this is an active issue on schedule for 1.3 I know you are not posting with negative intentions, please do not think I am responding in a negative manner - it is always nice to get feedback from one of the few people keeping the mothership alive in a healthy manner. Best of luck with X. |
|
|
| UnderDog |
Posted: 2009/9/8 11:03 Updated: 2009/9/8 11:03 |
Home away from home Joined: 2008/1/9 From: Posts: 1104 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Hi trabis, Thank you for your review, nice to see you back Quote: The "inherited crap" was something you did not have to inherit. That was a fundamental mistake IMO and a little out of the scope here. Yes, it's in the past and looking back will give you pain in the neck. So we won't look back. We're only looking forward Quote: The performance issues are related with this obsession of adding feature over feature not regarding if needed for every site installation. You're absolutely right about this and we're working on it. Let's look out for 1.3 for this issue. Quote: I'm sorry to see that you are insisting in bringing all to core. There is a lot of module developers that could extend core and even do a better job then the core devs. If modules can do it, it means that you have provided extensibility and that is what it is all about. Actually, as MrTheme has already mentioned, we're taking some core functionality and making modules out of it. We're applying the Impress Persistable Framework to those new modules and the result will stunn you. Quote: There are very impressive works done in this 1.2 series, but I did like more the alpha release and I think this beta(comparing to the alpha) is a step backwards. Thank you for the feedback. |
|
|
| McDonald |
Posted: 2009/9/9 19:11 Updated: 2009/9/9 19:11 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Abyss Posts: 1638 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Quote: iTheme is very slow to load. impresstheme is much faster. I've to agree with trabis on this. The first thing I do with a test install is switching to impresstheme. iTheme is just to ugly to look at and I think it's a bad theme to confrontate new users with. At least don't set this iTheme to default. Quote: There are to many options in admin side. I'm used to oops and I lost myself very easily in icms. It is just to much. Maybe we can split up the System menu into Preferences, Blocks, Users, etc. When we reach ICMS 1.4 users probably have to rotate their screen 180 degrees to see the full menu... Also the extensive obsession to use java more and more should be reduced. At the bottom of this screen we have the buttons PHP Powered and MySQL, but we might have to replace these with Java Powered and JQuery Powered in the future. |
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/9 20:22 Updated: 2009/9/9 20:22 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! iTheme is definitely slower than impresstheme, but that has more to do with the styleswitcher than anything - it needs to be rewritten to not use a morpho/zeta base. its amazing how much faster themes are when they aren't built using morpho/zeta.
I would be down with dropping the style switcher as well.
All that - I totally agree with, but the complaint about it being ugly sounds more like a personal taste conflict.
Is iTheme the best possible theme for ICMS default? Probabaly not.
Is it more attractive than impresstheme and impresstheme-light? Definitely Yes, again though - thats just a personal opinion - but I am not the one that set it default so it must not just be my own.
I think it may be in our best interest to do a new theme for the 1.4 package. Something everyone is happy with that represents the project in the best possible manner.
**Personal note**
We need to be cooperative about this stuff, very few people actually helped do anything with iTheme when it was being developed - I was pretty much stuck with the task, and continue to be stuck with the complaints about it. Really not fair that you voice your opinions now, but were utterly silent about it then.
That being said, I hope we can figure out something that might satisfy everyones personal taste - however if you are happy with fashion and trends from the 1990's how much weight should we put on your opinions regarding it in 2009? Not directed at anyone personal... but why on earth would we not be using javascript? Its 2009 - that is pretty much what the web is about now. It would seem to me that opinions are a weighty issue, but who's opinion matters more. Its a battle between the minority and majority, how are we supposed to satisfy everyone out of the box, all while moving toward being a modern and valid project?
So the questions comes up - do we believe that given the trends with the web, the users are looking for modern ajax/javascript applications, or are they still looking for and using just static systems?
If you think we have used too much javascript now, you really haven't seen anything yet.
The only reason you even notice how much JS we are using is that it has not been optimized. We are pulling from several different files which creates more http requests...
What I plan to do is compress and organize the libraries by function, so when you are using frontside edit - you are only loading a single js file for that purpose. However, all of us only have so much time in the day, anyone is welcome to help with this stuff so we can get more done.
I think I have blabbed long enough - all in all this conversation is really helping us get an idea of what needs to be changed and improved - please keep it coming.
|
|
|
| bleekk |
Posted: 2009/9/9 21:25 Updated: 2009/9/9 21:25 |
Home away from home Joined: 2008/3/19 From: Posts: 232 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! I think that the itheme is the better choise for the default theme. It is slower but it looks much better then the other two.
What I do not like is the new administration side. it should not be merged with the theme. I like a template based backend where I can change the style. but it is not necessary to merge it with the theme. for me the professional feeling of the backend is lost.
I feel there are too much preferences in the core. there are simply too much things. it is too heavy. there must be a end with adding new features. for the future it would be better to make plugins or modules that can do the stuff.
|
|
|
| trabis |
Posted: 2009/9/9 22:00 Updated: 2009/9/9 22:00 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Portugal Posts: 358 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Personally, I like iThemes more than the other 2 core themes, my "complain" is just related with speed, it takes around 50% more of download time. Regarding JS and AJAX -> use if needed. Do not make the mistake of ajaxifying everything just because it looks web2.0(whatever that means). The tool tips "look" very nice but they are not ergonomic, they are forcing extra clicks where there was no need to. Pagination is also a problem, you are in admin side so performance is not big issue, why paginate if it only adds to confusion? Can't take the image manager out of my mind... |
|
|
| McDonald |
Posted: 2009/9/9 22:22 Updated: 2009/9/9 22:24 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Abyss Posts: 1638 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! To me iTheme always looks like an unfinished theme because the tabs ain't working. Also some classes seem not be defined in css. Quote: Pagination is also a problem, you are in admin side so performance is not big issue, why paginate if it only adds to confusion? There's no real pagination. The only thing that has been added is a class for page style. It was discussed in this forum topic appr. one year ago. |
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/9 22:30 Updated: 2009/9/9 22:30 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Quote: The tool tips "look" very nice but they are not ergonomic I could bind it to a hover event instead of click. |
|
|
| skenow |
Posted: 2009/9/9 23:16 Updated: 2009/9/9 23:16 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Posts: 2886 Online! |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! I would go for a hover instead of a click
|
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/10 0:41 Updated: 2009/9/10 0:41 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Actually - I like this better.
Committed at 9355
|
|
|
| debianus |
Posted: 2009/9/10 7:37 Updated: 2009/9/10 7:37 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Spain Posts: 920 |
 Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! About iTheme, I like more than other core themes; but about taste, everybody thinks different. Yes, it is more slow too, but that problem can be solved; sure.
Regarding JS and AJAX, I agree with Trabis -> use if needed. Do not make the mistake of ajaxifying everything just because it looks web2.0(whatever that means).
Admin side in WordPress has become unusable, slow and heavy; but, certainly, on 1.2 there are not too much jquery or js: redirection by jquery is great; when I see system_redirect, well, ten years ago...We are in 2010. Look for ImLinks: great module: it uses ajax and js and it is an advance over WF-Links
Admin side: if some of you use KDE, you know is a very powerful desktop on Linux; but Kcontrol had a lot of options and become to be too much difficult and complex for the users. Kubuntu did a new approach based on usability (systemsettings - gnome control center based) and now KDE 4 use it.
Perhaps some new features could be modules because they are not necessary in all sites; but Control Panel needs a brain storm. Sometimes does not seems "logical" to me. In "Site Preferences" there are a "totum revolutum" (more in "Personalization")
An approach:
Features are related by: System. Content, Users (for example)
In different places on Control Panel we have features about the Users: Edit Users, Groups, Find Users, User Ranks, Mail Users, Avatars, Smilies (more User Settings in Preferences"): "Users Management" (and as subcategories all those)
The same about "System" or Content, or whatever possible categories.
Well, perhaps it is not a good idea; but I believe that we can do a better (and more organized and usable) Control Panel. Of course, it is not a matter for 1.2, but we must think about it.
|
|
|
| McDonald |
Posted: 2009/9/11 14:37 Updated: 2009/9/11 14:37 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Abyss Posts: 1638 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Quote: iTheme is definitely slower than impresstheme, but that has more to do with the styleswitcher than anything - it needs to be rewritten to not use a morpho/zeta base. its amazing how much faster themes are when they aren't built using morpho/zeta. If the styleswitcher is the problem than it might be an idea to remove it and split the theme up by colour in multiple themes: iTheme Blue, iTheme Red, iTheme Green, iTheme Grey, etc. Two things I don't like about iTheme: 1. The tabs don't work; users have to edit the theme to have the tabs working which is not ideal for new users. 2. The coloured top-bar should actually fade downwards. Now it suddenly stops and makes the theme look unprofessional. Maybe we can change iTheme into a real iTheme for 1.3 release... Was the morpho/zeta-thing not something from the X-era?? |
|
|
| david |
Posted: 2009/9/11 16:56 Updated: 2009/9/11 16:56 |
Home away from home Joined: 2008/2/12 From: Posts: 728 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! I'll see what I can do about the tabs later I have an idea on that .... |
|
|
| McDonald |
Posted: 2009/9/11 17:50 Updated: 2009/9/11 17:50 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Abyss Posts: 1638 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! iTheme discussion to be continued here in forum.  |
|
|
| Vaughan |
Posted: 2009/9/12 12:42 Updated: 2009/9/12 12:47 |
Home away from home  Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Derbyshire/UK Posts: 1749 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Quote:
- Making tips for fields descriptions is bad idea. You are making people click in every field to get simple information. Maybe the wiki pages could go on such popus.
well that was more my particular idea than anyone elses, but i'll stand by it because honestly believe that the admin preferences with all the long descriptions etc needed cleaning up, as the descriptions made the preferences pages Cluttered & messy. maybe a hover tip would be better, we're on beta, it's a new enhancement, and yes it's possible to change. the whole point is, that we are doing something and we are trying to make things more elegant & professional looking for the end users, and I don't think having all those descriptions onscreen permanently will make the admin screens look nice. IMO i think the tooltips is a great touch to the admin pages & makes them more presentable. with regards to category's and better organisation of preferences, if you read about & are on the mailing list, you would know I've been working on a new config system for a while now, mainly working on a section for Security Preferences to begin with, in order to have settings that deal with security of the site & user in their own section, more categorization would come after then, but if you're a developer of xoops or icms, then you already know when I say what a huge task that is going to be to achieve with the way the config scripts are written at the moment and with the way the config data is stored. on the 2nd hard point in changing all the config round, we have the problem that it will most certainly & most definitely BREAK compatibility with XOOPS, we can't just shift config data around without also modifying modules and other parts of the core to use those new config $vars, so we also need to take that into consideration aswell. needless to say it is on the agenda, and it will be sorted as we go along. |
|
|
| Will |
Posted: 2009/9/12 16:20 Updated: 2009/9/12 16:20 |
Home away from home Joined: 2007/12/4 From: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3111 |
Re: ImpressCMS 1.2 Beta Released! Yep, X Compatibility is a huge hindrance. I gleefully look forward to the day when we put it behind us.
So tired of hearing...
"Awesome idea, but we can't really do it because X isn't capable of...."
|
|
|
